Good tool / language for a mockup?

[Greg Freemyer]

All,

I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally use
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.

I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.

My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).

I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

Obviously I'd prefer opensource, but I can buy something if it is not
too expensive.

Ideas/suggestions welcome,
Thanks
Greg

[Carlos E. R.]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Post by Greg Freemyer
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).

You can try Lazarus, a free lookalike to Delphi.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlCJw4cACgkQja8UbcUWM1wZPQD/cm9SiMxNwXdQuAKDRqKk5Pa5
6+0+qaZPZaP+RkVqyW4A/jT9jsm2lLl1YB2t7lc1fbD/UO/pfQjONtDVO7fqlFLB
=iInj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Per Jessen]

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally use
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

...

HTML5 is, imho, mostly more bells and whistles. For a mockup, plain
old-fashioned html+css will probably do fine.

[Greg Freemyer]

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally use
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

HTML5 is, imho, mostly more bells and whistles. For a mockup, plain
old-fashioned html+css will probably do fine.

...

Mockups are all about bells and whistles if you're trying to raise
money to do the full development. (That's my situation).

I have seen applications written with a HTML5 front-end that are
really functional. I don't see doing that in html+css.

I think I'll look into Lazarus, but I must say I'm very surprised that
Delphi (or Lazarus) is still anywhere near state of the art for a
mockup.

Greg

[Per Jessen]

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally use
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

HTML5 is, imho, mostly more bells and whistles. For a mockup, plain
old-fashioned html+css will probably do fine.

Mockups are all about bells and whistles if you're trying to raise
money to do the full development. (That's my situation).
I have seen applications written with a HTML5 front-end that are
really functional. I don't see doing that in html+css.

...

You meant to say application mockups right? I mean, lots of functional
applications have been written with a html+css frontend. Well, plus javascript
of course.

TBH, I don't know much about html5, maybe there's more to it than I thought.


/Per

[Greg Freemyer]

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally

use

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3

years).

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

HTML5 is, imho, mostly more bells and whistles. For a mockup, plain
old-fashioned html+css will probably do fine.

Mockups are all about bells and whistles if you're trying to raise
money to do the full development. (That's my situation).
I have seen applications written with a HTML5 front-end that are
really functional. I don't see doing that in html+css.

You meant to say application mockups right? I mean, lots of functional
applications have been written with a html+css frontend. Well, plus javascript
of course.
TBH, I don't know much about html5, maybe there's more to it than I thought.
/Per

...

The webui for build.opensuse.org is written via ruby on rails. The ruby application runs on the server and outputs html+css+javascript to the webserver for the web browser to run.

It looks okay, but it still looks and feels like a web page.

I've seen apps that have their webui written in html5 that make you think you're running a local native app. I have no idea what they were written in on the back end.

Greg

[Per Jessen]

Post by Greg Freemyer
The webui for build.opensuse.org is written via ruby on rails. The
ruby application runs on the server and outputs html+css+javascript
to the webserver for the web browser to run.
It looks okay, but it still looks and feels like a web page.
I've seen apps that have their webui written in html5 that make you
think you're running a local native app. I have no idea what they were
written in on the back end.

Okay, I misunderstood - you're really after a proper GUI (a la something
written for Qt) mockup.
I don't know how much one can do with tcl/tk these days, but I remember
colleagues of mine doing nifty little things with it 10-15 years ago
under CDE.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally

use

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3

years).

Post by Greg Freemyer

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

HTML5 is, imho, mostly more bells and whistles. For a mockup, plain
old-fashioned html+css will probably do fine.

Mockups are all about bells and whistles if you're trying to raise
money to do the full development. (That's my situation).
I have seen applications written with a HTML5 front-end that are
really functional. I don't see doing that in html+css.

You meant to say application mockups right? I mean, lots of functional

It looks okay, but it still looks and feels like a web page.
I've seen apps that have their webui written in html5 that make you
think you're running a local native app. I have no idea what they were
written in on the back end.

...

Yes, there is stuff like Sencha / ext3 <http://www.sencha.com/> But I
don't know what they buy you for a 'mock up'. I'd assume you'd just
build the application that way; and using them is straight-up
'development' - you have to know their object model & Javascript.

If you just want to bang together some forms then LibreOffice's Base is
probably the shortest non-development route.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Per Jessen

Post by Greg Freemyer
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally use
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)

HTML5 is, imho, mostly more bells and whistles. For a mockup, plain
old-fashioned html+css will probably do fine.

...

Are there any *working* Open Source HTML5 design tools that would be
useful for an application of any real complexity? [an HTML5 equivalent
to GLADE] Or do you mean to just mock-up by cranking out hand-written
HTML forms and [ugh!] Javascript.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Greg Freemyer
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally use
Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and then
start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.
My main languages are C (10+ years), C++ (5 years), Delphi (3 years).
I've done some ruby on rails stuff as well (maybe 1 year combined).
I'm thinking HTML5 is the way to go these days for user interface
layer. (Lots of tools in my space use a web interface, but old
fashion HTML is boring, and flash is dieing.)
Obviously I'd prefer opensource, but I can buy something if it is not
too expensive.

...

I haven't found anything equivalent to the form designer, etc... I had
back with Borland & OWL [the last 'Windows' development tool I paid
for].

I guess it depends on how functional your mock-up needs to be.

Whatever you try / find / use, please provide feedback to this thread.
I've very curious what you choose.

[Carlos E. R.]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

I haven't found anything equivalent to the form designer, etc... I had back with Borland & OWL
[the last 'Windows' development tool I paid for].

As far as that, Lazarus has a form designer. I didn't have a chance to compare with current
Delphi, though. And I have not tried to use databases with Lazarus myself, my apps are simpler.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlCOY2AACgkQja8UbcUWM1xMPAD/a7unoyrFlvoBHQO1tQeM2YFO
TWAtnosSpuW3z6NBMT0BAKAk8oQiMjkFiIAdttKyCG71E98dYTumv+gNOPVwdYOv
=vW3D
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Carlos E. R.

I haven't found anything equivalent to the form designer, etc... I had back with Borland & OWL
[the last 'Windows' development tool I paid for].

As far as that, Lazarus has a form designer. I didn't have a chance to compare with current
Delphi, though. And I have not tried to use databases with Lazarus myself, my apps are simpler.

Is there any kind of embedded database in/for Lazarus? [that works with
the form operations].

I'm looking to build an app that uses a local database that is
synchronized with a server over JSON. I assume Lazarus and the
underlying components have JSON & HTTP capability [the questions on the
FAQ indicate that it does].

[Carlos E. R.]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Post by Carlos E. R.

I haven't found anything equivalent to the form designer, etc... I had back with Borland &
OWL [the last 'Windows' development tool I paid for].

As far as that, Lazarus has a form designer. I didn't have a chance to compare with current
Delphi, though. And I have not tried to use databases with Lazarus myself, my apps are
simpler.

Is there any kind of embedded database in/for Lazarus? [that works with the form operations].

The LCL (Lazarus Component Library) contains SQL components, yes. I see connectors for mysql and
oracle at least, but as I said, I have never used them myself. Probably firebird too, unsure.

I'm looking to build an app that uses a local database that is synchronized with a server over
JSON. I assume Lazarus and the underlying components have JSON & HTTP capability [the
questions on the FAQ indicate that it does].

Well, I don't know personally, I use Lazarus for other types of programming, quite simple nowdays.
If you have used Delphi you will find it familiar, with missing things.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlCOvAgACgkQja8UbcUWM1xdzQEAm50DNL/smYvekLBtAcSWbI8v
+e/4uXLMfa38lz8ur9QA/iaAZ889F7zcuKivmKEOoow3TEIzHUJSoTYFJZPQq5pY
=5F7Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Werner Flamme]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally
use Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and
then start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.

If it is the UI only, try Pencil as a standalone tool or as a Firefox
plugin <http://pencil.evolus.vn/Downloads.html>.

Our (web-)developers use Balsamiq Mockups from
<http://www.balsamiq.com/download>. It is *not* open source, but you
can get a free trial version (fully functional for 7 days).

Both tools are for layout only, AFAIK you cannot start to implement
from there.

Cheers,
Werner

- --

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

iEYEARECAAYFAlCOZgIACgkQk33Krq8b42Mu1QCeL8P2ofkeXVxUb+PThjOqoB4G
PRUAni1uF8q2bXbelhQsYQFB2s6Auoj+
=KuKO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Bogdano Arendartchuk]

Post by Carlos E. R.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally
use Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and
then start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.

If it is the UI only, try Pencil as a standalone tool or as a Firefox
plugin <http://pencil.evolus.vn/Downloads.html>.
Our (web-)developers use Balsamiq Mockups from
<http://www.balsamiq.com/download>. It is *not* open source, but you
can get a free trial version (fully functional for 7 days).
Both tools are for layout only, AFAIK you cannot start to implement
from there.

...

QML?

http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt/qdeclarativeintroduction.html

Post by Carlos E. R.
Cheers,
Werner
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/
iEYEARECAAYFAlCOZgIACgkQk33Krq8b42Mu1QCeL8P2ofkeXVxUb+PThjOqoB4G
PRUAni1uF8q2bXbelhQsYQFB2s6Auoj+
=KuKO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Werner Flamme

Post by Greg Freemyer
All,
I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would normally
use Delphi because I could get a great looking UI pretty quick and
then start working on the implementation details after the fact.
I need to do a new mockup and I don't have any idea what a good
language tool is.

If it is the UI only, try Pencil as a standalone tool or as a Firefox
plugin <http://pencil.evolus.vn/Downloads.html>.

Does Pencil do UI mockup?

Post by Werner Flamme
From a *glance* it looks like it is primarily a UML-like tool.

[Werner Flamme]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Post by Adam Tauno Williams

Post by Werner Flamme

All, I haven't done a mockup in 15 years. Back then I would
normally use Delphi because I could get a great looking UI
pretty quick and then start working on the implementation
details after the fact. I need to do a new mockup and I don't
have any idea what a good language tool is.

If it is the UI only, try Pencil as a standalone tool or as a
Firefox plugin <http://pencil.evolus.vn/Downloads.html>.

Does Pencil do UI mockup?
From a *glance* it looks like it is primarily a UML-like tool.

...

For me, it builds UI mockups. Have a look at
<http://pencil.evolus.vn/Stencils-Templates.html> (with links to the
googlecode page of the project).

For UML, I use umbrella, and that has a very different look and feel...



- --

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

iEYEARECAAYFAlCOdJEACgkQk33Krq8b42Nw0wCeOTuATRg/W5QuYDHnoj1N97JI
eBMAnRZ3ZR8AbjRjJmMfBsVGBFPMca93
=0NqL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Greg Freemyer]

Summary of moving forward if anyone cares:

It looks like my final app will have a least 4 main chunks:

Event/Log parser
Event/Log database
Event/Log correlation engine
UI for the user to drill down into the DB status and correlation
engine decision process.

I have Lazarus (Delphi) install and created my first trivial program.
It works very much as I recall Delphi working and I'm going to
definitely use it. Possibly only for a event generator front end to
push events at my log parser. Delphi (Lazarus) really makes it quick
to build a nice UI based app.

Here's a trivial tutorial if anyone wants to do a truly basic app.
(It doesn't even do hello world, but it should be easy enough to add
that to onclick event.

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Tutorial

For the my main correlation engine app, I found to 2 correlation
engine skeletons that look promising. Both are commercial (and
expensive) and written in Java, so it only seems logical my main event
processor be in Java as well. The one I like the most lets you graph
out your basic functional needs. That is tied to a RAD style Domain
Specific Language (DSL) which is a subset of Java. By RAD I mean that
changes to the graph update the DSL code, and changes to the DSL code
update the graphs.

The DSL in turn compiles into full fledged Java code that can make
calls into other Java Libraries (JARs).

My real goal for now is to create a Mockup of the end-users normal UI.
I haven't totally decided, but I think I'll use the Firefox Pencil
add-on to create a basic mockup, then create functional parts of it
via Java Beans with HTML5 support.

Thanks All,
Greg